LJWorld.com

merrill (Anonymous) says…

A hidden cost of growth.

Commissioners do not believe outside opinions that Lawrence Retail is over built and now do not believe city staff it is time to replace fire engines.

The newer buses will be cleaner burning and run for a longer period of time before replacement time comes again.

After 20 years of expanding our tax base why is it there is no money for infrastructure? What did not pay off?

Informed (Anonymous) says…

Ditch the library; buy the fire trucks!

(Kinda like: leave the gun; take the cannoli.)

mommaeffortx2 (Anonymous) says…

Ok we have enogh for new flowers and roundabouts but not new fire trucks?? This is wrong so wrong.

terrapin2 (Anonymous) says…

Just because some of you don't use the T doesn't mean that it isn't serving a needed purpose. I'd like to put you in a room full of regular T-riders and have you explain to them that the T isn't needed in this town!

My son and I occasionally ride the bus downtown when we don't want to worry about finding a place to park. But now that my wife is a stay-at-home mom with our new baby we are preparing to downgrade from 2 cars to one. This means that I will start riding the T to work at KU, or riding my bike when the weather is nice. With gas now approaching $3/gallon again MORE Lawrencians should be considering transportation plans that include ditching their car for the ride to work and replacing it with a relaxing ride on the T!

kujeeper (Anonymous) says…

Wow one person who “occasionally” rides the “T” These buses are a waste of money, they are never even close to full at all. Waste! Ride your bike to work and let's have new trucks to protect our homes and our families in them.

walleye9898 (Anonymous) says…

I agree — forget the buses and all the other wastes!

Focus on priorities based on risk, The #1 criteria of any government has to be protect public safety and infrastructure. Fire and Law Enforcement must come first, after that basic public infrastructure to support life (i.e., water, sewer, etc). Roundabouts, parks, recreation fields, libraries and public transit are necessities or priorities.

It is a matter of needs v.s. wants. I vote buy new fire trucks (as long as they are red!)

If the buses fail, let the people walk or ride their bikes!

smitty (Anonymous) says…

I say ditch the golf course and replace the fire trucks and the T buses! Kinda like terrapin2 manages the family budget. Yes that's right, manages not reacts.

Godot (Anonymous) says…

If the T is so vital, but so unused, why have the large buses? Why not have smaller vehicles until the ridership increases enough to justify the big busses?

Imagine how much money would be saved if the big diesel guzzlers were replaced by Scion XB's. Those vehicles properly reflect the ridership of the T now.

mommaeffortx2 (Anonymous) says…

no Godot no more scion nation tired of it already, no more fuel for their fire:)

acg (Anonymous) says…

I agree with smitty. The T is used by many people, regardless of what others like to think. It's a necessity for their lives. You know what's not a necessity for life? Golf.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

“Posted by Larzia (anonymous) on April 25, 2007 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I say ditch the T, replace the firetrucks… At least those actually serve a purpose.”

How about a merger? Ditch the buses, renovate the fire trucks to carry passengers, recruit the passengers to help fight the fires. Problem solved!

cowboy (Anonymous) says…

it is painfully obvious to any thinking being that the T is massively over configured to serve the lawrence rider load. Why on earth would the city staff recommend buying more heavy duty buses and continuing this 1.5 million annual drain of city money. reconfigure the vehicles to serve the actual rider load , realign the ride fees to reflect at least 75 % of actual cost and then grow the system as appropriate to load.

Yeah right…that would make too much frigging sense wouldn't it ?

jonas (Anonymous) says…

Besides, why should I give a damn about fire trucks. I'm careful with my house, so I won't ever have a fire there. If other people are going to have a fire at their house, then let THEM pay for the cost of the fire truck!

Damned neo-psuedo-socialists, stay out of my taxes!

Good2go (Anonymous) says…

How many fires do we have a year? It doesn’t seem like more than one a month at best. Oh well arguing safety is like arguing with my wife, pointless. However, if we need new equipment shelve the new library project. In the end, I am sure our elected officials will do their best to make the best decision they can for us, and we will all hate them for it.

One thing you can do for the buses is reduce the schedule the buses are running empty anyway. Where can you find out how much the bus system is costing this fair city? It would be nice to see a number like (# of fares per gallon of fuel used) we could then see how green our mass transit system really is.
I think Lawrence has a bad case of Urban Envy. We want to be a big city, but we are not, we are a small town with a big university in the middle. Throw in we are suburbia for KC and Topeka and there you have it Lawrence Ks Small Town USA. God I love it.

mommaeffortx2 (Anonymous) says…

jonas hope lighting or arson does not come your way.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

The “T” is also one of the costs of growth. When Lawrence was a relatively small, sleepy college town, a bus service wasn't that necessary, since most things were within walking distance.

But that changed decades ago, and as Lawrence continues to grow (and, yes, it will continue to grow) and as single occupancy vehicles become more and more of a luxury, the investment in the development of the bus system will be viewed as one of the wisest choices this city has ever made.

mommaeffortx2 (Anonymous) says…

fire strucks respond to all 911 calls not just fires.

mommaeffortx2 (Anonymous) says…

opps trucks sorry.

cowboy (Anonymous) says…

if we accept the fact that urban transport is a city responsibility , then we also must demand that the city spend these monies responsibly. Continuing the ” big bus ” approach is very irresponsible given the actual ridership and the obvious red ink being generated each day $4100 thrown into the wind on a daily basis , 1.5 million per year. Reconfigure Now , don't continue the same old formula.

ctmhsmrcmlom (Anonymous) says…

Dear Jonas, never say never!!!!!! To keep our city safe, we need to keep our firefighters safe with optimal equipment. Some people may never need the fire department, but some will. God Bless those who need the fire department, and may he continue to protect those who have never needed them. The fire department doesn't only respond to fires! Emergency medical care is 80% of the calls they respond to. Those calls are run on fire engines and ambulances.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

The buses in the city system hardly classify as “big” buses. If you want to see a “big” bus, take a look at one of the ancient behemoths that the Lawrence Bus Company uses for the KU bus service, or those that operate in KC or Wichita.

That said, the current buses will need to be replaced, soon. Getting a mix of sizes of buses might be the best way to go. Unlike most people on this forum, however, I'm not an expert on what size buses would work best.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

And to get back to the topic of this thread, if proper impact fees had been collected from new development as it went along, there would be more than adequate funding available to add any additional fire trucks and equipment necessary.

Good2go (Anonymous) says…

A city is big enough to need a Transit system when there is a need for it, and it can afford it. Lawrence Ks. cannot full fill either of those parameters. Moreover, probably will not for another 20 years.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

And, if taxes collected from the existing city businesses and residences had been spent on maintaining and replacing fire-fighting equipment, rather than for subsidizing the costs of growth, we wouldn't be reading this article today.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“A city is big enough to need a Transit system when there is a need for it, and it can afford it.”

There is a need, and we can afford it.

mommaeffortx2 (Anonymous) says…

firetrucks people not buses are the topic

Good2go (Anonymous) says…

Open your eyes nobody is riding the buses. That means there is no need. We are losing 1.5 million a year to this Tar Baby. The suburbanites are never going to ride the bus.

mommaeffortx2 (Anonymous) says…

I wuld not say nobody but they are not full that is for sure but I do see more people now than even a year ago.
Now yes e need firetrucks and if this city s willing to spend like crazy on round about and flowers and any other stupid thing they can get firetrucks they are more important.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

hmmm… satire meters are low on batteries today.

Or maybe I'm just not any good at it. . .

Informed (Anonymous) says…

We've needed a moratorium on roundabouts for several years!! Didn't I read where each roundabout costs approximately $750,000? Well, that would just about cover the $800,000 cost of a new fire truck.

jonas (Anonymous) says…

Although, I suppose the problem could be that satire doesn't show up well, because there is undoubtedly at least one yahoo, if not a whole enclave of them, who would genuinely think that very thing… .

… you are all apparently part of my inner monologue now.

Godot (Anonymous) says…

No doubt some of the wear and tear on the fire trucks is due to running over the roundabouts and speed bumps.

Informed (Anonymous) says…

How right you are, Godot. “Get rid of the roundies and save a fire truck!” It can be our new rallying cry.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

roundabouts for firetrucks!!!

***
Jonas, I got your satire as soon as I read it. just remember, there's always some of the humor-impaired on these threads.

p.s. the word prefix is “pseudo” otherwise pronounces like a form of leather plus “o.”

am a frequent rider of the T, but this article does present “can't buy the firetrucks because of the cost” vs. “we're gonna buy the new t-buses regardless of the cost, and heck, most of the money is funny-money anyway [federal money). can't we get some kinda homeland security grant thingy for first responders to provide some of the money for nice shiney red firetrucks?

Kontum1972 (Anonymous) says…

dear city…you should of considered that b4 u built that new firestation on Iowa…traffic is bad enough now its even worse when those trucks fly out of there..what a cluster-Fire Trk.

Federal funding..LoL…give me a break….did u forget theres a WAR going on..the Fed is not going to give you a friggin dime…..they could give a Fire Truck less if your city burns down..its the war on terror!..there is no money.

Kontum1972 (Anonymous) says…

ask VP Cheney….he is loaded!

Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

Every citizen and property in Lawrence needs and benefits fire and police protection. Very, very, very few people benefit or need the MT. $1.4 million is spent on corporate welfare to keep the MT running. A compromise is needed. Get rid of the MT and buy the new fire equipment.

I don't think we should put the entire City of Lawrence at risk for the sake of those few folks who actually ride the MT. In the alternative, revoke the corporate welfare for the few rich downtown landlords that are going to use our tax dollars for their private fire protection. Use that money to pay for firetrucks that serve the ENTIRE town, not just a handful of greedy downtown landlords who can afford to, and should, pay for their own fire sprinklers.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/apr/10…

shawn1040 (Anonymous) says…

Ditch the T.. Then allow the two people that 'occasionally' ride the T to ride on the back of the new fire trucks. Problem solved.

mom_of_three (Anonymous) says…

My kids ride the T downtown several times a week to visit the library after school, and to the pool during the summer. One rides it home every day after school. When gas prices go up this summer, more teenagers will be forced to ride the T or find alternative routes other than autos.
I could see using smaller buses, but not changing the routes or the number of.
Like it or not, some people rely on the T for transportation.

Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

Like it or not, fire protection for the entire City of Lawrence is more important than your kids trips to the pool and library.

Bowhunter99 (Anonymous) says…

Merrill believes that when he moved to lawrence, HIS move was NOT considered growth….

How about we eliminate some of the Social Security and Medicare subsidies????? all people that moved to lawrence (regardles of how long ago) should not receive ANY social services.

I'm sure Merrill will be against it because he's directly affected…. All others expenses are 'hidden cost of growth'.

RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Anonymous) says…

I thought banning grills would reduce the need for firetrucks.

KsTwister (Anonymous) says…

We need a ban for city officials who can't analize or budget a city's necessities. The top unique quality of Lawrence right now.

riverrat2 (Anonymous) says…

Dump Lew Perkins and order 2 new fire trucks….per year.

Lime Green, please.

prioress (Anonymous) says…

mommaeffortx2 jonas hope lighting or arson does not come your way.
====
Jonas has electricity? Once, on a news station, they noted that the thunderstorm contained dangerous
'lightening.”

Kontum1972 (Anonymous) says…

firetrucks come under homeland security,,chk plz

oldvet (Anonymous) says…

Buy the new fire trucks, give the old ones to the people who use the T (they can each have one)… but fire trucks MUST be red…

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

apparently, Kontum is completely ignorant of the meaning of the term “first responder.”

and his name should be spelled “contumely” to be more fitting.

perkins (Anonymous) says…

Sounds like the Chief is following the example of the “our state university buildings are crumbling” crowd.Declare a sudden dire emergency and hope you don't get asked why you haven't been kicking and screaming about the problem for the last five years.

Why is there not a schedule/policy already existing for replacement of fire engines?

JoRight (Anonymous) says…

ditch the sculptures outside the firehouses?

smokey (Anonymous) says…

I like Fire Trucks….

laughingatallofu (Anonymous) says…

>>>

Posted by jonas (anonymous) on April 25, 2007 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Besides, why should I give a damn about fire trucks. I'm careful with my house, so I won't ever have a fire there. If other people are going to have a fire at their house, then let THEM pay for the cost of the fire truck!

Damned neo-psuedo-socialists, stay out of my taxes!

<<<

I wish that _I_ could be so confident. I also hope that I'm not living next door to this yahoo.

Hoots (Anonymous) says…

I find it odd that Lawrence Bus Company kept buses built in the 60's running for years but we are ask to replace buses that are only a few years old. Private sector spending vs. government wasting. I guess overhauling motors and repairing the buses is just too much to ask. Give me a break. It must be fun to buy new toys with other peoples money.

dthroat (Anonymous) says…

OK, I am going to be in the minority on this one, but JUST want to bring up some things to think about. I am not like jonas and think I will never need a fire truck because I am careful (I am but my neighbor might not be and there is that lightning thing…)

Let's think about some things without just jumping on the bandwagon (firetruck). It seems to me the FD has long range plans for just about everything, which is how they managed to get several new stations approved. I am just sure they knew how old all these trucks were and when they would need work or replacement. I really don't remember the city buying ALL this equipment at one time - why is it suddenly neccessary to replace all of this at one time.???? I can't seem to recall buying more than one or two trucks at the same time in the past, but suddenly most of them need replaced - and at the same time??? hmmmmm

Believing the FD kept great records on their equipment (i.e. scoring system) I would think they wouldn't all expire close to the same time. Maybe one or two at a time, just like they bought them.

AND knowing this was coming, just WHY did they have to spend millions and millions of dollars on new stations??? (which of course no one questioned because it is the FD.) Maybe they should have spent just a touch less on each station and used that money for all new trucks.

And now to stir it up completely - - - Maybe the trucks wouldn't wear out quite so quickly if they didn't send mulitple fire trucks to every medical call where someone stubbs their toe. (but wait - that system was sold to the public years ago as a cost saving move. Go figure.)

Let the fire fighters come out and start the lynching now….

jonas (Anonymous) says…

laughingatallofyou: Just a note, but if you're going to to claim such a provocative name, I would recommend that, before posting, you gather all relevent information, since you may make a post that thus makes you look like you, say, jump to reactions without considering all factors, and then people may laugh at you.

(to miss the sarcasm/satire was apparently par for the course, but to miss the following comment in which I say it's sarcasm/satire just makes you seem foolish)

Godot (Anonymous) says…

dthroat, thank you for injecting some perspective into this discussion.

I suggest each of us personally communicate with the city commissioners asking them the same questions dthroat raises.

Godot (Anonymous) says…

I cannot believe the city spent so much on fire stations, and the accompanying art, when a few economies, a few less luxuries, would have provided the money needed for new fire trucks (if, indeed, they are truly needed)

I join the person (sorry, I do not remember who) who has been calling for the repeal of the 1 percent for art. 1 percent is the sales tax that Mayor Hack is proposing to just make ends meet. At this point, I would say fire trucks, sewers and streets are more urgent that bronze art works created by out-of-town artists.

1 per cent additional sales tax is an absolute nonstarter while the 1 per cent for art is still in effect.

Godot (Anonymous) says…

“1 per cent additional sales tax is an absolute nonstarter while the 1 per cent for art is still in effect.”

Lawrence is not 18 century Italy.

Godot (Anonymous) says…

The 1 per cent for art must disappear.

Sigmund (Anonymous) says…

dthroat does make some excellent points and it is certainly possible that the “scoring”, which is new this year, needs to be adjusted to match reality. It is a little odd that so much is so wrong, but nobody noticed till this tool was introduced. Chestnut wants to see the hard data and I don't blame him.

pelliott (Anonymous) says…

I find the level of response odd. A fire truck, two cop cars and an ambulance for every 911 call, like the time the bicyclist tipped and bumped his head. we were very clear about what had happened. I could see an ambulance and a police car but 4 to 5 vehicles.
The other day for a towing, 8 police cars for one teenager yelling about losing her car, she should of shut up but a swat team reactions was a bit weird.
Small frugal changes could extend the life of a lot of equiptment and they have not been considered in city hall for a long time. Pinch a penny could save us thousands and thousands.

doesnotplaywellwithothers (Anonymous) says…

What is the policy on sending firetrucks out for other than fires?

Bladerunner (Anonymous) says…

The fire department frequently sends up to 8 personnel in 3 vehicles (firetruck, ambulance and a supervisor in an SUV) for a elderly person with diarrhea. I can understand such a response for a major accident with multilple injuries but they routinely respond to minor calls in full force. This allows them to tell the commissioners they used X amount of personnel and Y amount of vehicles last year and need more and more! This is a practice they began several years ago and has served its purpose well in securing them new stations, equipment, and personnel. Something needs to change.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

godot,
I've been calling for the repeal of the per cent for art thingy. for example, because of that silliness, there's going to be a truly strange piece of art for the *new sewage treatment plant*! if we put a responding firefighter art work at the firestation, then the mind reels off into very silly territory on the subject of the sewage treatment plant's piece of biosolids…I mean…art.
thus, we have a responding firefighter statue in front of a station staffed with crumbling pumpers. and a nice shiney molecule art work at the sewage treatment plant, but if it has a fire the responding firefighters will ride to put out the plant fire in trucks endangering their lives?

***
Jonas, I'm always amazed how dense some people are!

jonas (Anonymous) says…

Gnome: I would say that more frequently, it's just that people get triggered by something and launch off before really thinking about it or looking into it further. There's a poster here called “kneejerkreaction.” That's kinda the way I see it.

Sometimes, though, knee-jerk reactions are fun.

KsTwister (Anonymous) says…

“What is the policy on sending firetrucks out for other than fires?”

I think it was just too much when we call 911 for an ambulance last fall. First on the scene, a policeman, followed by the fire truck(who sat in the truck) when the ambulance arrived,followed by another police unit(who was needed to redirect traffic caused by the firetruck. I admire the guys but for crying out loud unless it is a multiple let the boys rest!!!

Want to see their chart for non emergencies?:

http://www.lawrencefiremed.org/01annualr…

biggunz (Anonymous) says…

oh god, here we go. in addition to all of the engineering, planning, accounting, and brain surgery experts, we can now add fire and ems operations know -it- alls.

With so many experts posting on ljworld, the newspaper should start a new service. If you have a question about a specific subject, post it on the forum. 150 world geniuses would then answer all of your questions. Better yet, save the city money and get rid of the fire chief, the mayor, the councilmen, etc. and just let the well informed on this site take care of everything. How could we go wrong??

Scooter_Trash (Anonymous) says…

Let's see if we can analyze some of these questions.

Why didn't the Chief ask for new trucks earlier?
He has only been the Chief for the last two years.

Why do fire trucks go on medical calls?
Because it's determined by what the caller is complaining of. Based on the severity of the complaint, more than two people may be needed to handle the situation. The dispatcher has a series of questions they have to ask. The answers help to determine who goes on that call. There is also only one Paramedic on the ambulance, usually another is on the fire truck. The reason there is one on the fire truck is so they can respond to your house if the ambulance that serves your area is already on a call. You'll most likely never see two fire trucks on a medical call. Usually it's one ambulance for minor medicals, an ambulance and a fire truck for more advanced medicals, and sometimes a Battalion Chief will respond to help out and oversee the call. Then, if someone gets flown to another hospital, you will see another fire truck respond to set up a landing zone. Don't forget, these fire trucks also have to drive around town to do inspections on all the businesses and apartments, plus all the training they have to do. These trucks are getting more use. the number of calls they have to go on continues to grow every year.

What about the statues?
Ask the city, I think a percentage of the cost of building has to go to art. Seriously.

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

that's the point scooter…we're investing in art, nice shiney art, that doesn't save a single life or protect a firefighter on the way to a fire call.

soon, our town could be described as : “all hat, and no cattle!”